Ausnahmezustand in Bangkok

Während die Farangs in den Foren sich blöde anmachen, scheinen sie nicht mal zu merken, dass Bewegung in die Sache zu kommen scheint:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008...s_30085750.php

[Samuianer]

Während die Farangs in den Foren sich blöde anmachen, scheinen sie nicht mal zu merken, dass Bewegung in die Sache zu kommen scheint:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008...s_30085750.php

Das ist Eines, das wahrhaft Traurige an der Sache ist, das es denen die am lautesten rumbloeken "der Taksin" war garnicht so schlecht und auch sonst kaum Ahnung haben, das letztendlich am A_sch vorbeigeht, Hauptsache "Mia" macht keinen Aufstand und es gibt keinen Liebesentzug!

Noch besser sind die, denen die Argumente ausgehen und dann persoenliche Anpinkelei betrieben!

Oder ganz krass die nun behaupten die PAD'ler haetten sich absichtlich auf die Granaten geworfen!

Wie die Verzerrungen um den tragischen Tod der jungen Frau!

[Samuianer]

Mal eine Zusammenstellung aus Fragmenten aus dem Netz die ich fuer eine Erklaerung halte, wen es interessiert. Der Text wenn auch noch, etwas oeberlfaechlich gibt einen guten Einblick worum es u.A. auch geht!

....ist fuer eine rasche Uebersetzung leider etwas zu lang, deswegen stell ich das mal im Original hier rein, sorry fuer die, die kein Englisch koennen!


If the military is going to be involved it seems we have something along the lines of class 5 & class 7. The latter being Chamlong, Panlop, Saprang et al. The former being Chavalit, Suchinda, Surayud et al and I think also the Bunnag that came out as saying he sold his house in order to clear PAD off the streets (not sure on that though).
So we have the situation of maybe using the PAD as an instrument to clear PPP off the scene but not being reliable enough to figure in any after the show scenario. Class 7 have a slightly shaky history when it comes down to the nitty gritty of allegiance so will not be trusted to follow through. The lines aren't exactly clear but if this is the case you have a point when PAD are not required any more and class 5 will see to it that they are dealt with.
There is going to be an overlap period when class 5 is dealing with the PAD and PPP maybe still have enough power to jump in and take the reins. Meanwhile the Democrats stand on the sidelines hoping to catch the crumbs that are thrown in their direction.

Anupong is neither of these 2 classes so maybe does not wield enough power to do anything. There is possibly the scenario that in reality he is not in charge of what happens.


Anupong most probably received money for not doing anything.
But not sure if that means much, because if he received the money already, he might not need to be "honest".



I think you misunderstand what I have said. The money (or not) does not factor into it . The man may have been given the position because it was expedient; in which case he holds that position as a figurehead, the decisions are not his to make. Whether he is "honest" or not is beside the point , he is merely sitting on the chair because it is convenient for others for him to sit on that chair. They (whoever they may be) are more powerful than him.


If the military is going to be involved it seems we have something along the lines of class 5 & class 7. The latter being Chamlong, Panlop, Saprang et al. The former being Chavalit, Suchinda, Surayud et al and I think also the Bunnag that came out as saying he sold his house in order to clear PAD off the streets (not sure on that though).
So we have the situation of maybe using the PAD as an instrument to clear PPP off the scene but not being reliable enough to figure in any after the show scenario. Class 7 have a slightly shaky history when it comes down to the nitty gritty of allegiance so will not be trusted to follow through. The lines aren't exactly clear but if this is the case you have a point when PAD are not required any more and class 5 will see to it that they are dealt with.
There is going to be an overlap period when class 5 is dealing with the PAD and PPP maybe still have enough power to jump in and take the reins. Meanwhile the Democrats stand on the sidelines hoping to catch the crumbs that are thrown in their direction.
Anupong is neither of these 2 classes so maybe does not wield enough power to do anything. There is possibly the scenario that in reality he is not in charge of what happens.


While talking of retired generals of various classes we shouldnt overlook the most powerful ex-general of all who has far more influence than anyone in classes 5 (Sunthorn, Suchinda, Issarapong, Boonchu, Kaset) or 7 (Chamlong, Panlop, Manoon, Sanan).

Chulachomklao Class five (1958), the people of 1992 infamy, are pretty much seen as an illiberal group and have been described as the most corrupt and power hungry military group ever. They as a whole split from the maybe more liberal Chavalit in the early 1990's. They also didnt trust his political ambitions and games and saw him as a traitor to their class! Quite how much power this still discredited class actually have is open to question. They were however strong supporters of Prem's government and so may through this avenue have some residual power.

Chulachomklao Class seven (generally The Young Turks) was generally seen as more liberal as they backed the people in 1992 against class 5 and earlier urged more reforms. They have also seen their power go up and down over ther years and have been involved in a number of failed actions but they have avoided, to date, being as discredited as class 5 even though they opposed and tried to launch coups against the Prem government. Quite how much power they currently have in the military is also moot although they have more recent retirees so it may be more.

Anupong, who of course didnt have a meeting wth anyone this week wink.gif, is in the bitterly divided class ten, of which Thaksin is a member too, which has 3 factions: Thaksin supporters, Thaksin enemies and politcally quiet. This is one reason why Anupong is probably forced to rely on others. A divided class is not a good support base. Quite who is the most powerful serving military officer may not be as obvious as who is the most powerful retired military officer but whoever it is will be loyal to those needed to be loyal to.

Saprang technically came from class 18 of the Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy and Surayud from class 12.

It is worth imho taking a read of a certain book on the period around the early 90's as there are a few interesting parallels. I have also been reading some stuff about 1997 and a proposed coup against themselves which is also interesting in light of recent events.

If the military do get involved I have little doubt that both the PAD leadership and the PPP will suffer. Right now as politicians stock is at its lowest ebb ever, the police already disliked become further discredited, the opposition just looks impotent and the PAD seem to get crazier the stock of the military is rising again. I seriously doubt that this is some complete accident. If they need to "save the country" at some point this rise in their stock will make them a lot more acceptable especially after ruling out coups left right and center. They are repositioning as the central neutral body.

All imho


With Somchai cancelling his trips and the violence on the streets, it is probably just a logical follow on, but there are lots of rumours that a coup was planned for a few days ago but never came to fruition.
Quite frankly the military can try and hide behind this facade as long as they like but it is painfully obvious what goes on. The military just don't want to lose their grip on the country. As long as this country is structured as it is at present then this will be what will happen again and again. They want to control their grip on politics and this is how they do it. It is just that the perceived threat to national security changes shape and position over time.
You can cheer on each side as much as much as you like, but best not to be too deluded into thinking that you are supporting the road to democracy or those with clean hands and pure minds. Because really in doing this you are just a convenient tool of those with real interests at stake. Don't for a moment think that your political conscience (or the odd finger or leg) is of any consequence to them. Politics like anywhere is a dog eat dog battle and here it gets taken to extremes.

[Dieter]

Den meisten Touristen geht das doch am Ar*** vorbei,
ja wo solls ihnen denn sonnst hingehen pommel? kein einziger farang wirt hier jemals gefragt was er zu dieser sache meint.es ist klip und klar das alles was da passiert geht euch einen feuchten heering an.das sind thai probleme und werden es auch immer sein.ob es uns past oder nicht.gruss pezi

Wo kommst Du denn her, um mit so einem dicken Brett vor dem Kopf rumzurennen? "Farang mai kochai", des geht vielleicht im Negerdorf, aber sonst nirgends. Meine Freunde in Bangkok sind an meiner Meinung sehr interessiert.

[Samuianer]

So, Tage vergehen und Eines nach dem Anderen kommt ans Licht!

Die Traengasgranaten waren tatsaechlich die Ausloeser, die 2 Tote und unzaehlige Verletzte forderten und keinen "selbstgebastelten Bomben der PAD'ler!

Die Granaten wurden tatsaechlich "uaf Mann" gefeuert!

Das Parlament hatte sich iinmitten der Nacht zusammen gefunden um den naechsten Schritt abzustimmen, nach Augenzeugen erschienen einige Politiker im T-Shirt andere, wie z.B. Gesundheitsminister Chalerm machten einen angetrunkenen Eindruck!

Chavalit hat Anweisungen gegeben mit den PAD'lern zu verhandeln um einen Abzug zu erzielen, sollten die Verhandlungen keinen Erfolg zeitigen, sei nichts zu tun!

Er wurde offensichtlich von Chalerm und Kowit, beides hochrangige Ex-Polizisten hintergangen, deswegen sein eiliger Ruecktritt!

Weitere Untersuchungen der Eskalation am Dienstag sind angeregt oder im Gange.

Heute hat Ex-PM Anand erstmals den Finger in Richtung Taxin erhoben und gesagt das er der Mann sei der den "Schluessel" zur Loesung des "Konflikts" in den Haenden haelt!

Kurz er solle seinen Einmischungen in die Politik Thailands aufgeben!

Taxins Sprachrohr hat die Angelegenheit schon dementiert!


.......Fortsetzung folgt...

[pezi]

Wo kommst Du denn her, um mit so einem dicken Brett vor dem Kopf rumzurennen? "Farang mai kochai", des geht vielleicht im Negerdorf, aber sonst nirgends.
hallo dieter ich glaube nicht das du geistig in der lage bist diesen ausführungen hier zu folgen.
gruss pezi.

Den meisten Touristen geht das doch am Ar*** vorbei,hat pommel geschrieben.
ja wo solls ihnen denn sonnst hingehen pommel? kein einziger farang wirt hier jemals gefragt was er zu dieser sache meint.es ist klip und klar das alles was da passiert geht euch einen feuchten heering an.das sind thai probleme und werden es auch immer sein.ob es uns past oder nicht.gruss pezi
Den meisten Touristen geht das doch am Ar*** vorbei,
ja wo solls ihnen denn sonnst hingehen pommel? kein einziger farang wirt hier jemals gefragt was er zu dieser sache meint.es ist klip und klar das alles was da passiert geht euch einen feuchten heering an.das sind thai probleme und werden es auch immer sein.ob es uns past oder nicht.gruss pezi

[Dieter]

Da muss ich Dir leider widersprechen lieber Petzi. Ich erlebe hier eine voellig andere Realitaet und diskutierte schon ausgiebigst mit Freunden (thailaendischen) ueber das Thema.

[pezi]

Da muss ich Dir leider widersprechen lieber Petzi.sieste dieter unter solchen umständen können wier hier eine vernünftige discussion führen. bei uns in udon iss das hald wieder anders.da giebt es sehr wenige die das interessiert, wennst mit einen thai hier darueber redest blockt der sofort ab.das ist ihm peinlich mit einen farang darueber zu reden.gruss pezi

[Dieter]

Wohnst Du in der Stadt Udon oder irgendwo in der Provinz Udon? Im zweiten Falle koennte ich das sogar verstehen.

Hier in Bangkok werde ich in die stattfindendenden Diskussionen von meinen Bekannten mit eingebunden, die sind sehr interessiert, wie das Ausland ueber die Sache denkt.

Ansonsten sorry, bin manchmal etwas zu direkt und bei vermuteten Pro Thaksin Einstellungen geht mir sehr schnell der Hut hoch .

[pezi]

wohne in der stadt.das problem hier ist einer iss pad der nachbar ppp.also wollns keinen streit untereinander.so mit wirt diese sache in bangkok einfach ignoriert.gruss pezi